lucien_soulban ([info]lucien_soulban) wrote,
@ 2006-06-09 07:21:00
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Here's the wind up...
...and The Pitch!

Sorry Rich, but this has nothing to do with baseball.

It has to do with novel pitches and submissions. Now I'm going to tell you a little secret... I suck at them. Or at least, I think I do. I was asked to pitch for Mirrorstone's YA Dragonlance line, but the proposal I submitted didn't appeal to them. I was rejected, though I've developed a tough-enough skin that it didn't bother me greatly.

Now bear in mind... I'm not lamenting my life as an author. I'm in it for the longest haul this mind and soul can bear, so I remain undaunted.

Regardless... I've encountered similar proposal hurdles with other companies, where the first proposal(s) is shot down like pick-up lines in a trendy bar. Now admittedly I'm dealing with other people's IPs, and it's difficult trying to fathom their direction for the lines, but how common are rejection slips in our industry? I'm fortunate in that I've had several companies willing to work with me to get the proposal right, but I'm worried I may be missing something crucial in the pitch itself. Am I too literal when I should be giving them flavor text like that found on the dust-jacket? Should I just hit them with the facts?

Talk to me... how do you approach submissions and is rejection our constant companion?

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[info]elissa_carey
2006-06-09 12:05 pm UTC (link)
While I've yet to submit a proposal for a novel, I've submitted plenty of proposals for various pieces of Shadowrun. My approach has been to use both flavor and facts -- I write up a summary or overview with plenty of flavor in it (while getting the gist across) to make the developer want to read more, and then provide a basic outline that concentrates mainly on the facts (but still has some flavor in it to keep from being too dry).

I've been lucky enough to have the majority of my submissions accepted; I'm well aware that rejection is likely, more often than not, in most areas of publishing. I've read enough interviews and articles on writing and publishing to know not to expect any submission to be accepted anywhere, first time (or even second or third or more) around. What advice I've constantly seen is, "Keep submitting anyway, and try to learn from each rejection." Advice I plan on following, when I finally do get around to submitting article or novel proposals to various magazines and publishing companies. :) You may have to ask the editor or developer why your proposal was rejected if they don't offer a reason; perhaps they may have something more concrete for you than telling you that your proposal went in a direction they didn't want.

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[info]lucien_soulban
2006-06-09 06:26 pm UTC (link)
Thanks Elissa... I did ask the editor, but she hasn't responded yet. I also have to admit that writing for roleplaying games really strokes the ego in terms of acceptance. If I hadn't gone through the Justin Achilli/Phil Brucato/Richard Dansky school for line-dancing your ego into the dirt, I wouldn't have developed a thick skin : P

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[info]kit_hartford
2006-06-09 01:02 pm UTC (link)
My one novel (so far) was the result of being approached by a company (yes, odd I know, but they were after people who knew the setting inside out) but even then the first proposal - though considered fine the face-to-face meeting at Worldcon - was shotdown in flames at later review because it didn't fit with the overall plans for the line (the fun with shared universes). Cue whole new idea, writing of a new proposal/outline and discussions over the direction of that before it was accepted and writing could commence. I'm not on tenterhooks to see how that's accepted (it's a non-English market, so even more worrisome than usual) before launching into others.

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[info]kit_hartford
2006-06-09 01:05 pm UTC (link)
And I should add that while this is my first novel to head to publication, it's not the first I've worked on. I was working on one about 5 years ago when the IP owner shut up shop and the novel line was somewhat trunkated, my slot being given to someone else which kinda had me furious at the time. Two other proposals rejected too, though in one of those the idea was worked into a gameline sourcebook and may yet get resurected as short fiction.

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[info]lucien_soulban
2006-06-09 06:29 pm UTC (link)
Ouch on the shaft there. I know the feeling. I have close to a million in word count that will not see daylight for years, if ever. As far as other novels, my first three novels are all companies approaching me and giving me the opportunity to submit. I'm looking forward to and dreading my first independent foray into the market.

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[info]irishspy
2006-06-09 01:02 pm UTC (link)
I've been lucky so far with the RPG industry: no rejections of the few pitches I've made, and I've had people seek me out. Now that I'm trying to move to TV writing, however, I know I have to practice my skills. (In fact, part of our classwork has been practice pitches.)

You might want to find a book called "How to sell every magazine article you write," by Lisa Collier Cool. It's mostly geared toward nonfiction article writing, but I think it's a great overview of how to do pitches overall. It's long out of print as far as I know, so you'll have to haunt used bookstores for it.

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[info]lucien_soulban
2006-06-09 06:32 pm UTC (link)
As I mentioned to Elissa... RPGs spoiled me. Thanks for the advice on Lisa Cook... I'll look for it. Also, take a look for a book called "How Not to Write a Screenplay." It's a fun read: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1580650155/103-0642852-6977400?v=glance&n=283155

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[info]irishspy
2006-06-09 07:55 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the reference. I've put it on the Wish List. :)

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[info]redredrage
2006-06-09 04:30 pm UTC (link)
Lucien, my friend, I will give you the same advice I have given plenty of others First: remember the pitch. What is a pitch? Well, I suggest being able to sum up your novel in two sentences or less. That's actually the hook, but I still suggest it.
Examples given:
What is UNDER THE OVERTREE about? It's about puberty and monsters and whether or not there's a difference.
What is FIREWORKS about? Remember that alleged UFO crash in 1947 Roswell, New Mexico? It's a moidern day retelling, set IN the town, not near it.
What's SERENITY FALLS about? A three hundred year old cuurse comes to fruition.
What's BLOOD RED about? Truly monstrous vampires in a small New England town..and no, I don't think I'm Stephen King and no, this isn't SALEM'S LOT.
Oh and make sure you keep the thick skin going, okay?

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[info]lucien_soulban
2006-06-09 06:33 pm UTC (link)
As always, thanks for that. And I love the pitch for Blood Red. I've been working on shorter and shorter pitches, but I think I still have work to do. I suppose my novel will be a test of that.
My love to Bonnie.

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[info]scanner_darkly
2006-06-09 05:04 pm UTC (link)
I don't have a lot of experience of successes, mind you. Some, but a lot more rejections. It does seem par for the course, though. Perhaps you should get in touch with a few people who have done properties for that company? I'm not sure.

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[info]lucien_soulban
2006-06-09 06:34 pm UTC (link)
It might be a good way to go. I know another author competing for that spot, so at least I have a direction. Thank you kindly.

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[info]iangurudata
2006-06-09 05:42 pm UTC (link)
You could always try researching the individuals receiving your pitch....
appear in their bedroom at night, duct-tape them to their bedposts/loved ones, tell them an interesting story from your childhood (the kind that's only funny to you because you had to be there, bonus points if it relates to kidnapping or losing a limb), and end the evening with a nice "thank you for your time, I'll see you tomorrow in your office for the pitch. Don't worry about your baby daughter, she's in safe hands with me [smile politely]"

hmmmmm.... maybe this is why I have a hard time getting dates....

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[info]lucien_soulban
2006-06-09 06:35 pm UTC (link)
Researching the individuals? Good idea.
Duct taping them? Not a good idea.
Hard time getting dates? Very likely.

Thanks Ian.

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[info]sorceror
2006-06-09 11:58 pm UTC (link)
Duct taping them? Not a good idea.

Oh, I think it depends on what you find out about them during step 1 (Researching the individuals). ^_^

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[info]mforbeck
2006-06-09 06:06 pm UTC (link)
It's always a crapshoot. Not only do you have to have a great idea, but it has to be one that catches the editor's attention, hasn't been done before (or isn't in production), doesn't conflict with anything else, and seems fresh and original while firmly grounded in what's gone before. It's a tall order and nearly impossible to get right.

When I get asked to pitch something, I like to come up with anywhere from three to ten ideas and write an elevator pitch for each of them. None of these are longer than three paragraphs, and they each usually incorporate a high-concept zinger that attempts to reduce the idea to its base elements.

I'm lucky if the editor likes one of them. When an editor asks for more about a pitch, though, I counter by asking exactly what they'd like to see. It seems like everyone's different, and I don't want to waste their time or mine by giving them anything that deviates too far from what they're most comfortable with in terms of content, format, and so on. Most times, the editors are only too happy to guide me in the right direction.

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[info]lucien_soulban
2006-06-09 06:40 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the advice. I have asked people before what they'd like to see, but I've had other editors who told me and just confused the bujezus out of me. Still... you're right about trying to figure out what they want versus what they've done.

See ya at Gencon.

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[info]emeraldblack
2006-06-12 02:49 pm UTC (link)
Over the years I have been able to sell just about anything to just about anyone; including ideas. The gay pornish cartoons were requested as were the 3 short essay-like pieces that were published in small papers in Saskatchewan, Northern Scotland and London. It appears that belief in what you're selling counts for a lot. However, when it comes to story/book submissions I have nothing to recount as I have no idea to whom or where to make them and of course, authors being entities who jealously guard their contacts, no one has ever offered a single word, nay not even a smidgen of advice or assistance.

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